Listening to ‘Glutton For Punishment,’ the debut album of Heartworms, transports you to a realm of dark and intense post-punk. In a conversation with Jojo Orme, the creative force behind the project, we discover more of the gothic allure that inspires her artistry.
A true creative, her carefully chosen words throughout our discussion reflect the countless intricate details that compose her debut album. More than just a musician, she is a world-builder, often getting lost in her thoughts and frequently apologizing for veering off into tangential musings as she invites CLASH to explore the creativity behind ‘Glutton For Punishment.’
“It’s such a lovely thing to say and relates to much of humanity and our behaviors—overconsumption, and so on,” Orme explains regarding the album title. “These are all detrimental things for us. It made sense to use that as a starting point to delve into the album’s meaning.”
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The music is as heavy and indulgently dark as the title implies. It begins with ‘In The Beginning,’ an atmospheric instrumental that draws you into the shadows. “I wanted something like silence, but not quite silence at the start of an album,” she clarifies. “To set the tone and urge people to turn up their volume, to trick them a bit. I pictured someone at the edge of a cliff, feeling the wind and its weight as they let go. As they fall, the wind intensifies and then gently dissipates. Then ‘Just to Ask a Dance’ begins. The narrative starts with the act of falling.”
When she spoke with CLASH last year, Orme expressed her desire for each song to possess its own character: “[So] you feel the characters and you feel the story.” Who are the characters present in ‘Glutton For Punishment’?
“The distinct narratives are the genuine ones. For instance, the story of William Hugh Gibson Gordon, who also symbolizes all the lives lost unjustly in wars.” This refers to ‘Warplane,’ which recounts the story of a real pilot who was killed in action at the young age of 20. In this haunting song, Orme channels her fascination with military history and envisions the sounds of a descending Spitfire.
“I enjoy narrating those painful tales. But Heartworms is a character in her own right. Her stories emerge through Josephine.”
The distinction between Heartworms and Josephine, the art and the artist, comes up multiple times during our conversation. “I often say that Heartworms is Mr. Hyde, and Josephine is Dr. Jekyll. I kind of step into character when performing. Meanwhile, Josephine can start to cry offstage.” It’s easy to picture how the demanding process of recording and touring could blur the lines between the two personas and complicate their separation.
“It’s actually quite straightforward,” she states. “To me, it’s like acting. Heartworms is an exaggerated and animated depiction of Josephine. When I’m recording or singing, I can embody Heartworms' voice and truly feel the emotion because Josephine authored the songs, so I resonate with them just as Heartworms does.”
The character plays out on stage during live performances that are as intricate and thoughtful as the music itself. Drawing inspiration from the theatricality and synchronization of Michael Jackson and Prince, Orme even enlisted a movement coach to refine every action on stage: “Her name is Liv Lockwood. She’s helped me perfect my movements, especially for ‘Extraordinary Wings.’ I told her this is a ritual. I want it to be flawless. Every gesture just right, each moment precisely timed. We ensure that the eye contact and mouth movements—so many details are present. If you’re in the front row, you’d notice it. You can see me convey the story with my body.”
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There’s a strong goth tradition that almost always sees musicians reject the label when it's placed upon them. However, diverging from the paths of Robert Smith and Siouxsie, Orme embraces the goth category, which reflects many of her influences beyond music. “I adore Edgar Allan Poe. His poetry is simply beautiful. And gothic architecture—those stunning drawings provoke a certain emotion within you when you encounter them, especially in person. These magnificent churches. I aspire to draw them—I’ve attempted, but it’s quite challenging.”
She’s on an unending quest for inspiration, diligently jotting down ideas that captivate her in one of two commonplace books—one she labels her “dark book” and the other for memorable quotes from her literature and poetry readings. “Let me read you one,” she says, reaching for a small red notebook. “Here’s an Emily Dickinson quote: ‘Because I could not stop for death, he kindly stopped for me.’ That hits incredibly hard.”
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Experiencing 'Glutton For Punishment', the debut album by Heartworms, is akin to diving into a realm of somber and intense post-punk. In conversation with Jojo